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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jun 30, 2008 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: why is a quote called a tease?

This is just something that's been niggling away at me. If a musical phrase from one song is dropped into another one it is invariably described as a 'tease', as in: 'Garcia played a couple of Dark Star teases in the Playin' jam'. To me, Garcia isn't teasing, he's quoting, or borrowing, from some other part of his musical vocabulary because he thinks it works there and not because the band might, or might not, be about to play Dark Star (or whatever).If I say 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be' I'm not 'teasing' Shakespeare and about to recite Hamlet - I'm just quoting.

So, how does a quote from one Grateful Dead song played in another come to be called a tease? I'm just idly wondering, it's no big deal if nobody knows.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 30, 2008 7:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

My favorites along these lines are when they would play UJB in late 69 DS's...ie, before "it" was the song, the "music" shows up in the DS (to my great delight, BTW).

My question is, were the boys already playing UJB in the studio? IE, had they developed the song and were just very much "borrowing" as you say to give us a new and different DS jam sequence?

Or, had they independently developed the music for what was to become UJB, and joined that preformed sound to the lyrics Hunter provided?

Does that make sense? Chicken/egg kind of thing...?

Also, love when they take some music such as CCS and just use it in a DS or other jam (eg, 9-19-70, following StSt). That would be more in the spirit of your observation.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jun 30, 2008 9:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Well this is an excuse (were any needed) to go and listen to some 69 Dark Stars and keep an ear out for UJB references (for no reason whatsoever I'm starting with 7 November at the Fillmore - do you have any pointers, Master Tell?). Of course they played UJB itself a few times in December, so it was obviously something they were perfecting ahead of the Workingman's recording sessions. My feeling is that it would be pretty much at the forefront of their minds around then and so had a good chance of being 'quoted'. Not that I really know!

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 30, 2008 2:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Sorry, Rob--not spending enough time of late in fall 69, my comments above notwithstanding. Think you are on the right track--I think UJB Jam shows up on a DP's from Nov (8th?) and maybe the 7th as well (both Fillmore shows, right?). Not sure if it was in others, but I thought I found it at least twice, so maybe just those two shows...

Agree that they were probably playing UJB fully formed by that time in the studio, so this likely fits your "quote" approach. Thus, I would think it means that they had the song and borrowed it for the jam...

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Poster: cush212 Date: Jul 2, 2008 1:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Yes.

Warm enough for out there big Tella?

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Poster: august_wst Date: Jun 30, 2008 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Quote or Tease?

Probably for the same reason almost any jam that appears to have psychedelic qualities, but still appears "structured" when listened to. It somehow gets listed as a "Mind Left Body Jam", but when you listen the actual Airplane tune it's not even close to the actual melody. (and the band makes fun of the tendency for this to happen with things like "Mud Love Buddy Jam")

Or that every time Phil makes an appeal at one of his concerts for organ donors it gets dubbed a "Rap" even though it's so far removed from anything Neal would have done to the point that it's just plain wrong. It's not a "Rap" it's a public service announcement.

Deadhead's like to have a comfy label to call things. It helps if they are reminiscent of "times gone by" when things we more experimental than they became. Just my opinion of course.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the fact that Jerry is just noodling. Sometime he found himself in familiar territory so he played the lick. I doubt it's any more conscious than that.

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Jun 30, 2008 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Quote or Tease?

I think of the great Eleanor Rigby "Quote" that I imagine just fell into Garcia's hands one night as he headed off into the blissful states of After Midnight. The melody just pouring off his fingers and the crowd swooning with delight to recognize the song slowing being fleshed out. You wonder if that first time he did it, did he himself even flash a smile of surprise.

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Poster: the_full_monte Date: Jun 30, 2008 8:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Maybe it's just me but I always thought of a quote and a tease being two different things- for me a "quote" was always (as you've basically said) just dropping a random but recognizable sliver of one song into a jam of some sort...a tease is more like a deliberate fake-out, when the band seems right on the cusp of breaking into one song before deliberately shifting away from it at the last second and going into something else. Maybe it's not the best example but for some reason Richmond 10/8/83 leaps to mind (Wharf Rat>Sugar Mag tease>Good Lovin'); on the audience tape, you can clearly hear the crowd cheer in recognition of "Sugar Mag", then cheer again in suprise when "Good Lovin'" pops up instead.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jun 30, 2008 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

I dunno, Monte, that Sugar Magnolia 'tease' sounds more like a train wreck to me - the whole damn thing comes within an ace of just grinding to a halt. If this was a 'fake out' half the band were faking out the other half.

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Poster: the_full_monte Date: Jun 30, 2008 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Like a lot of things the band tried (a WHOLE lot of things), this sort of "tease" was kind of cool in concept but not always fun to listen to. Hell, sometimes the Dead had a hard enough time getting everyone on the same page and tackling their tunes straight on without trying to get all cute about it.

I will say that I feel any instances of them truly teasing a song were actually fairly rare. Most of the time I think Jerry would just be noodling, find himself in a certain key, hit a few familiar notes notes, and people heard what they wanted to hear.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 30, 2008 8:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Ah--got you. Yep, I was going with the "quote" notion in my comments above. The "tease" then might be the times only one or another bandmember plays a few notes of a song, and the rest follow (or not). Or a full blown tease might verge on a quote if all of them do it for more than a second or two...

Getting complicated with this classification scheme I can see...

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jun 30, 2008 7:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

i always just kinda assumed the musician is incorporating another portion of a song that the audience wants to hear but does not get - therefore the musician is "teasing" the audience. teasing but not following through - somewhat like William Tell's sex life

;)

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 30, 2008 8:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Yep...problem with me is even the teasing is short-lived...more like a "fantasy tease" (ie, I am thinking about the music, but can't even play a few bars).

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

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Poster: cush212 Date: Jul 2, 2008 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Because we said so...

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 2, 2008 1:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Jon - promise I'm going to drop you an email - you're on my list (along with a few other worthy people) but damn I'm just a hopeless correspondent...

Hope you're doing well, old friend.

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Poster: cush212 Date: Jul 2, 2008 1:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

Doing OK, my friend... My bad at corresponding too! I should have a little more internet access now though.

Take care Rob, I've gotta go brave the heat (109 at 12:30 pm, ouch!)and run some erreands. Hot as a pistol, but cool inside, you might say...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jun 30, 2008 10:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

For me, you long-winded self-important blowhard, a "tease" is not what Jerry intends, but what the audience is feeling. He may know right off the bat that he is in no way going into a Darkstar, he just felt that some of Darkstar fit the jam's structure like you said. Now, the crowd however, might feel completely different. You are in the arena enjoyin a particularly large He's Gone jam, when you here the distinct opening bars to Darkstar. Not being able to read Jerry's mind, your heart becomes aflutter with anticipation of what you are sure will be a monumental transition into your favorite song. When, however, Jerry pulls back into the He's Gone jam and instead steers towards an Other One, you feel somehow "left hanging", needing to re-adjust to the new offering. While you do eventually make the transition, you still have the lingering sorrow over not getting what you thought was coming. Selfish? Sure. But the feeling of being teased remains nonetheless. They often say that one of the Dead's greatest attributes was their ability to "turn on a dime". Well, the same cannot be said of the majority of us. We hang on Jerry's every note and perhaps too quickly jump to conclusions about what is to come.

Just as we read one of your self-aggrandizing posts, we eagerly anticipate what is normally some profound and insightful conclusion that always leaves us amazed and enlightened. When, however, we are instead rewarded with some nonsensical pile of juvenille blather, we are dissapointed and may say that you have "teased" us. I'm guessing that the moments commonly referred to as teases are not 1st Degree teases by Jerry. There was no malice aforethought. More like involuntary manslaughter (also known as culpable homicide in Scotland) where there is no intent to cause "teasing", but it happens nonetheless.

This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2008-06-30 17:18:43

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jun 30, 2008 3:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

Okay, SDH, I understand the HEAT is getting to us, but if you could, please send a courier over the wall of the compound with a highly condensed version of this post, preferably one with pictures, and no words with either more than two syllables (sp check?) and certainly no more than 7 letters so that I can understand what the Hell you are saying.

Nonetheless, I did think this was frickin' funny.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jul 1, 2008 6:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

OK. Revised version:

Tease? Yes.

Rob? Blowhard.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 1, 2008 7:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

Magisterial, Hollow, truly magisterial. You calling me a blowhard in an answer that was three times longer than the question is yet another nail in satire's coffin. Really, you give so much of yourself. I just wish you'd hold some of it back. Please.

I will return to semi-retirement happy in the knowledge that the exalted position of Pretentious Panjandrum of Pomposity is safe in your hands.

(OK with you, Prime Minister Tell?)

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jul 1, 2008 7:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

you people have waaaayyyy too much time on your hands.

either that, or something else is in your hands that takes waaaayyyy too much time.

not sure which

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 1, 2008 7:53am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

When he isn't infesting this place I believe Hollow is a regular visitor to those sites that allow him to practise his finely-honed one-handed typing skills.

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jul 1, 2008 8:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

"finely-honed" or "tiny-boned"

i wasnt sure which you really meant

if it is the latter, i'm sure it would only require "two finger" typing skills

:)


how goes it my UK brother?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 1, 2008 8:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

Not going too badly right now - but not going very well at all recently. I'll make time to drop you an email later. You still keeping your seat on the wagon, old friend?

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Poster: direwolf0701 Date: Jul 1, 2008 8:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

sorry to hear that things have not been all that good :( i hope it is nothing overly serious my friend. would love to hear from you if you get a few moments - i think i owe you an email also, if memory serves. been damn busy, not that that is any decent excuse.

been doing pretty well - keeping occupied with photography and kayaking and reading. one day at a time - had a couple of slips, but i am right back "on the beam"

looking forward to hearing from you - hope your writing is going well - you are damn good at it.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Jul 1, 2008 7:43am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Why is a hedgehog called Spiny Norman?

Pretentious Panjandrum of Pomposity?

The mere typing of that only serves to solidify your place at the top of the satire chain. I must refuse your kind offer, I still have much to learn from you about the art of linguistic grappling. Someday, perhaps, someday.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Jun 30, 2008 8:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

If the quote, as you eloquently put it, is borrowed from a show-stopper the band rarely performed, i.e. Dark Star during the 1980's, the audience is most definitely teased into believing that something special MAYBE about to happen.

And while you are probably correct in that most times these are unintentional references, there is no doubt the band did in fact tease the audience on occasion.

A perfect example is this fine Supplication Jam. The Lazy Lightning references are well articulated throughout, and particularly at the very end where the band thoroughly fakes out the Nassau crowds with Esau...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd85-03-29.oade-schoeps.sacks.23475.sbeok.flacf

*My apologies for referencing an AUD from 1985!

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Jun 30, 2008 9:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: why is a quote called a tease?

I guess it's a tease if the song they first started playing is the one you wanted to hear more than the one they actually play. I'm no expert but this sounds like a tease to me. The band is already into Standing on The Moon when the rip cord is pulled and Wharf rat suddenly appears.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd90-11-01.sbd.ladner.8068.sbeok.shnf

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